- David Alexander Cardamone I'm confused to why everyone thinks Meleeworld will change Melee, when Meleeworld is Melee. Look at the cycles of change. The 3rd cycle of change in Melee was the 30th year anniversary last year, 2013. Would some guys who want to be hit 100 times to die with boffer swords say, "We dont want Melee to change to linear weapons and 3 points/body death honor system, we want it to stay the way it is". Now I know it isn't so extreme like that, but, lets keep an open mind and be open to others and accepting and not hating of others.
- David Alexander Cardamone Im not trying to argue, or that 'my opinion is better than your' stuff. Screw that. Im just saying that we should be more open-minded about accepting others in Melee and how they want to play it. Does changing my garb and weapons change melee? To what extent? Will assimilating Meleeworld and their rpg games on tabletop and battlefield change melee? Not really. Its all melee. Even if you were to do more scenario-style battles where you play yr persona, saying what you want to say, you're still gonna do some hard-hitting stick-jock fighting to develop the stories that unfolds.
- Branden Andstuff Acceptance is a two-way street. I can tell you sincerely that I made a best effort- and still was subjected/witness to all kinds of bile directed at us... You know, because their way is right and ours is wrong. You want to go play in a bowling league, or an established rpg campaign, you don't walk in and demand that everything change to suit you. You join in- and make suggestions to improve things as you go. Like a participant interested in everybody having a good time.
- Branden Andstuff I left the site over a year ago. But you know I don't get offended easily. I'm not interested in dredging it all up anyway. I hope one day folks can let all of go for the good of our game, but it may just take that generation retiring before the old grudges finally stop poisoning the well.
- David Alexander Cardamone ah. Well I dont know whats going on but ah, well, in this position, I am with both sides, meaning I want both Melee and Meleeworld to assimilate in a good way and I do show interest in what the New Third Cycle of Melee is going to be. Of course, you guys are happy with Melee the way it is. Yeah, it's good, it's great. I love it. I just ah, have an open mind and I do not mind trying other experiences. I love more scenarios and monsters/magic although some others may not like it, but that's just me. I always thought if someone was so obsessed with historical accuracy they'd just play SCA since the weapons have more historical accuracy. I mean, were' fighting with foam here, it's really roleplay, but thats just my opinion. If anyone thinks otherwise that's great that's their prerogative. What I am getting at here is that for the Third Cycle of Melee if there is any change, it's gonna be good, not bad, if we make it so. Just like the 1st Melee gone into the 2nd Melee cycle with better weapons and armor/garb/rules/honor system of hit points. When I saw Meleeworld RPG trying to assimilate into Melee, I theorized and made conjectures that it was gonna be a healthy part of the Third Cycle of Melee.
- David Alexander Cardamone Grudges, and Nerd Rage, to me, aren't really personal with the Nerd games of Melee or rpg or LARP or whatever it is that they are doing, but venting out the Nerd frustrations with a non-nerd world outside of melee/nerd thing. Once they recognize that, they realize that they need to manage their energies and venting/channeling energies in the right outlets and make the right choices. For example, a businessman trying to relax playing golf but keeps missing his par and is getting too many strokes and is getting all upset, breaking his golf clubs, cussing, etc.. Its all a part of life and basically it's about managing energies and being calm and cool as possible like Spock.
- Branden Andstuff It still can be. I hold out hope- but it takes folks willing to compromise. Until folks start seeing Melee as the team instead of KOP, or Broknarra, or Kroninburg.... Until snarky "we did it better (despite the fact that out group tanked) than you guys." comments stop, this will just be the way of things. If anybody REALLY wanted to improve Melee, all they have to do is show up and pitch in.
- David Alexander Cardamone exactly, that is what I'm going for. I play the Meleeworld game and as a Melee player I am hoping for more scenarios and more interactive gaming in a battlefield where I feel personalized. Let me guess, is a Faction Battle most people's favorite battle? Its because it's personalized and has identity. When everyone fights for their faction, they are fighting for Identity/personification and fighting within a story, an outcome, and satisfaction is felt. Surely when everyone feels their personalities and identities having conflicts in a story within a scenario and they fight to win their outcomes a lot of satisfaction is going to be had. Perhaps Meleeworld didn't go about it the right way, and for me I shall make no effort to hide that Ive always gone about things the wrong way and have caused drama-storms. It is true that Meleeworld has a whole decade of history, so does Melee (has a bigger history), and those strengths need to be united for the Third Melee Cycle. Now, I am speaking my mind and ah, am speaking as a Meleeworld player, but I am not an official representative of Meleeworld I am just a friend and trying to make some peace and hoping for some good collaborative unity to play some good games that is all.
- David Alexander Cardamone Thanks. Im trying, from experience to live the best life possible and to keep calm and cool in dealing with the conflicts that life offers. "living the best life" possible may seem self-serving, but part of living the best life possible also means finding a role that is satisfactory in life. I mean, Im not a doctor where I could save someone, I guess I have an art education. So, in that regard, perhaps I can make art that could improve life, or to open people's eyes/perceptions to make them aware, of somethings that cookie-cutter mainstream media doesn't tell them. As Bruce Lee says: "The meaning of life is: It is meant to be lived".
Thursday, November 13, 2014
Tuesday, November 11, 2014
Dear "kingdom of praelia" <sp? Please fuck off from my beloved melee. You're nothing more than self serving shit heads who don't care about anything but riding our coattails to line your own obese pockets. If you actually cared about our group you would show up to practice more often than once in a blue moon and offer CONSTRUCTIVE input instead of trolling our forums. Your group imploded for a reason, please take your cancerous attitude and be gone.
- David Alexander Cardamone They are creative and have created a wonderful body of work of RPG that is art. You are judging without even trying out the game. This is your stickjock Melee: "I hit you" "you hit me" "I hit you" "you hit me" "I hit you" "you hit me" it is banal and repetitive. Meleeworld brings rpg to the battlefield. This is Meleeworld: "Bartender, a round of ale for us" "That will be 5 gold" "Greetings adventurer, I hear of a quest where a nearby lost mines has a magical relic that can help us stop Butthead, the Ass-Faced Demon frrom spewing his bullshit among the Kingdom". etc. As you can see the intellectual. creative aspects of RPG combined with fighting and being a part of an interactive story breaks the banalty of repetitive stick-jocking. Try to be open-minded and not act like brainwashed lemmings in a cult.Just now · Like
- Nathan Natred Trim They also trade marked the creations of others in an attempt to turn a profit off of them, and they attempt to run melee in general in a profit generating way. Both of those things I don't like, and also, zero is said about their board game above, just their people.
- David Alexander Cardamone hmm.. it does look like that in a way. But it was a different Melee group and they played differently from the others. It makes sense to call the game Melee as they were a real group and had a history of play. Its hard not to separate the game from profit, but it could be construed that its similar to Crafters profiting from making a melee weapon or armor. If they are doing it like a crafter then its the same as a crafter profits in Melee. What is the difference? Id like to know what the difference here is. Of course, Melee is a non-profit organization. But money is needed to craft weapons, armor, and of course, to print games. Or to run a really pricey event.
- Nathan Natred Trim That's why love of the game makes it happen, not attempting to turn a profit off the backs of the people playing that game. The difference between the crafter charging for a weapon and the game charging people to play is that the crafter's interaction with that person has no large scale impact on the game. It is a single person doing another single person a service in both time and material. Trying to turn a profit off your player base means monetizing the game, which has NEVER worked in foam fighting. As a note on pricey events, most 3-5 day long fighting events I go to cost about as much as their day event. The 150 man day event that just passed for Dag costs less. Now sure there's 'just fighting' at those events, but they still require intense amounts of work and set up to do right.5 mins · Like
- James Huff I'm done beating around the bush with these fuckers, they don't represent US (melee as a group, or even kroninburg). They vainly hold on to a long forgotten past when they were relevant. If they would come to practice forget about their hidden, self serving agendas, and quit trying to control something that isn't theirs, this post wouldn't exist
- Mike Sumrall I will tell you from a person that was there during the whole shit storm and split, that both parties were right and wrong equally. Until we bury this unproductive name calling and shit throwing.....Melee will never progress or get better. Tulsa is a small market and to try and force 2 Melee's kills them both. I was there and speak from experience. We were ran into the ground too, 5-12 man practices were common for a while,we have yet to have solid rules.....but for the 23rd year I hear they are coming. Working together builds Melee.....burning bridges leaves us on our own little island and the reason we are so small compared to other groups like us.
- Michael Sumrall For the record I am Pro-Melee,which means I dont care who runs it as long as they do a good job and are fair to all the citizens.5 hrs · Like · 4
- Mary Ireland Kunze My two cents... melee is great. A group of people got together and did a lot of work to put it together how it is now so people could participate. If you don't like it this way go elsewhere. DAG has things it offers different. That's the key.... different. Or try again to make your own group but accept the melee we have for what it offers and quit pushing your agenda and whining.
People like Nate that want more RPG go to DAG and melee both. Making suggestions isn't a bad thing, but in the context of criticism or wanting the good old days back is inappropriate. If a suggestion isn't received favorably move on.
As for judgements. ... people will always have opinions. And this opinion is on a private personal feed. So if someone chooses to get offended. .. oh well. It is James' right to offend on his own feed.2 hrs · Like
- James Huff And where was this castle for the scenario? ...... it was at ballsacks house because there wasn't enough rsvps for their shindig. If he had melee's best interest in mind they would've brought it regardless. What the fuck is that huge fucking castle doing in the middle of the park? Idk let's see wtf is going on over here. Boom new member(s)
- James Huff At $10 a head, 3 admissions cover the truck David. Labor intensive? Yes, but if you're putting on the scenario it SHOULD BE a labor of love. KOP only labors for their pockets. If they spent all this money building the damn thing, then why for the love of fucking Odin wouldn't they want to show it off. I'll tell you. Because it wasn't going to benefit THEM. The best intentions of melee were never even a thought.
- Turlough Cathal Ó Dubhagáin It is shit like this, on both sides, is why Melee has never really expanded outside of OK when it SHOULD be one of the largest foam fighting groups in the US.
Internal bickering and greed has been this groups downfall for the better part of two decades.
It truly makes me sad, because I still consider it to be one of the better systems I have fought in.
- David Alexander Cardamone Well I tried to make a good scenario, I didn't even finish my wings in times to play a Winged Devil, and it took me I think nearly 20 hours to assemble my wings I had to experiment, because after looking at cosplay tutorials, some wings were breakable in combat and after debating what materials to use I figured that foam and duct tape like a melee weapon was the way to go so I could build melee durable wings, even though I wouldn't get hit much due to Soar. I brought materials with my own money and it costed 20 usd to build. But I try to contribute to having a fun scenario. But its grody that we weren't able to play with the castle though. So, Im putting in my teamwork into playing Melee, and I am not trying to profit from it either like most Melee people.
- Timothy Drost Lotta hate going on here. People, myself included, have spent a lot of time and effort to bury this hatchet. I don't see the utility in digging up the hatchet. Yousguys are allowed your voice and your opinion, not trying to censure anyone. My opinion is that the worst thing people in an organization like ours can do is to tear down those who are making an effort and doing things. All that leads to is the lack of things happening, which is lame.
- Jesse Tabor Their next scenario their doing will cost you a toy, for charity.
They are also working on keeping melee going on Sunday to have a separate day away from our Saturday.
Who the heck makes melee role playing books for the last ten years and thinks they are going to make some serious cash? That is money and time lost, but they love role playing games and melee. The Characters in the books are personal friends who don't mind that their personas are being used.
- David Alexander Cardamone i dont know I cant speak for them, I can only speak of what I know. I hope its all good. If there was any profit, it looks like it funded more books printed (this is my theorY), as well as renting out a table at WizardWorld Comic Con, they are very expensive and they spent way more than they made. Thousands and thousand of people saw that table, and they did it for all of Melee, every Melee group. However, they wanted to put up flyers for Melee but they said that someone did not deliver the flyers as promised. Still, there is a website link for those interested and I think it still advertised Melee in some way, abliet the lack of Melee Kroninburg flyers.
- Branden Andstuff All of this is silly. First, if anybody thinks any hatchets were buried, take a gander on Meleeworld at what is said, frequently about us. I joined that page in good faith, out of what I thought were shared interests, but got sick of the way folks constantly trash us there. It takes both parties letting go of a grudge... Still, I chose to ignore it and move forward. Their hangups are exactly that. For our part? Yes, whenever somebody complains about a Melee problem, there are folks that egg it on, sometimes blatantly, sometimes with what they imagine is subtlety. Yes, there are a few folks that would love to co-opt this group and just tuck in nicely into their (for profit) game system. Yes, when people ask questions on our forums about our rules, there is one person that can be counted on to spout rules that don't apply to us. There is the unspoken understanding that some folks want us to fail. (That they think we don't see it can be a little insulting...) With all that said, 1) These minor transgressions are harmless. As long as we keep growing our game, keeping it fun and moving forward, none of those things can really do us harm. There ARE things that could be done to hurt our group. As long as they don't go there, I'm content to look the other way when I see this lesser stuff. 2) We're finally about to have our updated rules in a format that lays that argument to rest. I'm excited. Best of all? Our rules don't pay anybody's bills. They never will. 3) EVEN with all the minor annoyances, we all grow the same interest in the same activities. Like us or hate us, every nerd in garb telling folks to hit people with a stick is an ally in getting the word out. If some daydream of a day when we use their rulebook, and history, let them. We have our own- it is rich and deep and can be added to as needed for our purposes. I've always thought we should just merge the two mythologies/histories and lay this ridiculous game of jockeying for position without appearing to, finally to rest.
- Branden Andstuff I love you, though.18 mins · Like · 1
- Turlough Cathal Ó Dubhagáin That was one of the great things about being off in SA all by ourselves.. I managed to keep my colony in somewhat of a neutral (but friendly) standpoint.
Was I involved with Praelia? Yes, I was.. I was also very involved with Brok as well.. I tried to keep us tied to both groups in one form or another by attending events in their respective parks. As it had already been stated, at its core it was all Melee and I tried to maintain that philosophy to all my troops by filtering all the drama to the best of my ability.
Being involved with both groups, I was exposed to bickering, greed, and possession issues on not one, but both sides. There are many self-involved people in this system, many of which hold or have held seats of "authority" in the system...ultimately keeping it from growing. Its a 20+year long sad, sad song.
This shit has been going on long before Nicholshire/Praelia ever existed.
- Mary Ireland Kunze Tulough... The only experience I have had with our guys speaking out like Huff has, on his own time line, no less, is in response to crappy comments and criticisms posted on kroninburg forums. Bad enough it goes on and there will always be disagreement when groups gather. But in our world our rules. If they'd drop it we could move on. But for guys like branden and huff get tired of the crap, then there is too much of it.
- Branden Andstuff It's just a shame that there even have to be sides. Those old organizations both basically died with folks still bitter and championing their cause. We are what is here now. We could define ourselves by something other than those old debates. We rebuilt from basically nothing on the efforts of folks who love this game for what it is. We're not a pool of conscripts to throw back into failed projects. If folks could just keep their own personal ambitions and need for validation out of it, and get behind what is here now for the sake of everybody's good time, I can't even imagine how much bigger and how much further down the road we'd be by now.
- Jesse Tabor If Praelia starts trying to steal members, trying to enforce their codex rules or beyond the line, by all means ready the cannons!! Until then, their just doing their own thing that has no consequences to us.
There's no reason to start a hell storm over selling some roleplay books.
By becoming aggressive it divides us, some might rally to them, and we create a rift.
I was going to both parks like Turlough, trying to create peace with both encampments. I left Praelia because tempers started flaring. That was all..
- Branden Andstuff It shouldn't even be so hard, Jesse. You can't steal your own people. If we all just accepted that WE are Melee, and THEY are Melee, and the old stuff no longer applies here, for good or ill, and worked to shape the future of Melee (instead of trying to hijack it)... Man.
- Branden Andstuff Now if we could all quit trying to own it or claim it or defend it or define it and instead, act as STEWARDS for it... Because the only component in this whole weird pissing contest with any value is the bodies fighting- The populace. Without that, all the copyrights and titles and rules, and histories are meaningless. You can call an empty field a Kingdom, and yourself the King of it all, but it means even less than Liam's imaginary title at that point.
- Branden Andstuff You can hit the street, OR if you have a better idea, feel free to get involved. Produce. Contribute. Anything but just demand that the system change to suit your taste just because you know so much better.4 mins · Like · 1
- Branden Andstuff RPGs are great! That there is one modeled after their Meleeworld history/experience is cool. But those aren't the rules on our field. They aren't the rules of our organization. That's a lot of work though. Kudos to them for doing it. It just has nothing to do with us (aside from the names and organizations that were appropriated.) Frankly, you could build a Melee themed rule supplement for almost any RPG you like. It'd be a fun experiment.
- David Alexander Cardamone to mimic Melee action, considering the 3 limb hit death or body hit death rules system, one would have to know and watch melee to decide on how much of a chance one hits the other and one doesn't. Considering how much bloodshed is done in Melee, it seems that most conflicts on both sides get 50/50 chance of both being hit in a combat roll, with exceptions made with armor/experience levels.
- David Alexander Cardamone well, Ill work on that.. actually thats a good idea I think Ill make a conversion booklet sometime. Based on the Melee experience and so much flip-flopping, most opponents have 50/50 to hit on both sides, with low margins differences based on armor/skill level. For example a highest skill level for a humanoid has 70 to hit. Because battle is bewildering not everyone can pay attention to every single blade on the field.
- David Alexander Cardamone yeah in Warhammer, its supposed to be a cruel, harsh world and adventurers starting out with 10-something or 20-something WS (weapon skill) to hit is like I mean a low weapon skill. Im just using the 50/50 based on Melee experience. Surely newcomers act like that when I see them in Melee- theyve got like 20-30 WS to hit someone.
- David Alexander Cardamone Im busy working on a commissioned art project, but I was thinking of a 50/50 roll.. if you get a 50 roll success, then you roll your WS to see if you hit, that means 50, then 20-something. If you miss, well if the other guy, if he misses the first roll, he doesnt roll. Then if all are misses another 50 roll to hit on both sides is done to see who hits.
- David Alexander Cardamone Yeah, in Melee, the attack always happens. Thats why, I put in 2-3 initiative rolls. One for 50/50 to hit, then roll to see a successful WS 2 losses is a total no-hit. If both sides miss, one more 50/50 is rolled to see if there is a hit or not. This way if they both miss the WS there is the third. I can't imagine someone with a strong freaking 40 WS would miss someone with a 15 WS in Melee at all.
- John Charles Dean You just made my point. People in this group love to argue and in fight but could you, just for a second, imagine what the group would be like IF you could work together? Think about all the people that have been run off due to infighting. Michael I don't know you I retired long ago from this group but still have many friends that attend. I just think the group had potential but nobody wants unity there is always somebody that people want to run off. The group has been at the same number on field when I used to attend..... Years ago.... My advice would be stop pushing people away and work together. You can bash me all you want, honestly could care less, just would like to see the group I spent years building not cave because of childish behaviors
- Mary Ireland Kunze I feel like several people on this feed are having their own conversation and haven't read what has truly been said.
1. Praelia split from old melee group.
2. Praelia fell
3. Praelia wants kroninburg to do it their way and attacks kroninburg consistently in praelia forums. And makes crappy comments or digs in kroninburg forums when suits them
4. Kroninburg says you are welcome to join with us but don't try to change us because our group is happy and having fun.
5. People need to Quit whining over the past and look to the future whether Praelia or kroninburg. .
6. We really don't give a damn about the books etc.
7. Liam is the mad king and who cares how he got his title. He is officially a lord so get over it.
8. David is all over the map and I can never follow his stuff.
And John I don't know you but I'll point a finger at you. Get over it.
Jesse I think you flipped flopped. Brandon is brand en and huff declared his position.
If I missed a point sorry but 145 comments are tough to nutshell and my pain mess seemed to have kicked in
- Mary Ireland Kunze if you haven't been out, you have no idea what we are talking about. We aren't infighting. We are happy. Others want to come in and demand changes and we say no. Heaven forbid. We are doing fine and going strong. Our board worked hard to set up a great group. So support what's been built or move on. Those are the options.
- Branden Andstuff I will harass Liam about his "title" every chance I get. Somebody has got to remind the guy that we started lowborn and that's what we'll always be. as for the rest, there is plenty of room to roll your sleeves up, John. Unretire and show us how easy it is to fix the persistent personal friction stuff. In any case, we wish you well, too.
- John Charles Dean I am raising my children and have no interest in returning but like I said I have friends out there that I wish well. I spent over 15 years in this group and have moved on but that doesn't mean I don't want the group to be successful. I plan on visiting one day but being a father and husband is my main mission in life. I also manage 5 radio stations and that keeps me busy
- Branden Andstuff To be fair, Mary, this fight has been going on in one way or another all along. The recent details may be outside their experience, but they aren't without background enough to make a decent guess. What they don't know is how much effort and hard work has been put into this rebirth only to have troubles and ambitions from the last, failed generation of Melee foisted on them as soon as they saw some success from their labor. That's the real shame of it all- that folks saw a vibrant Melee again, and had to color it with personal baggage so old most hardly knew it existed.
- Mary Ireland Kunze I completely understand where they are coming from Branden. But judging based on the past is the problem. Unless someone is out there to see for themselves, they shouldn't judge or complain. They should join in, have fun, or move on. Bringing the old crap out is wrong. And bending over backwards to accommodate some whiners is the downfall of any group.
- Branden Andstuff I advise ignoring the whiners. They'll either leave because the injustice of it all is so unbearable, or they'll realize it really isn't all that bad, and get tired of flapping their lips after a time. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen somebody swear to leave forever because a ruling didn't go their way and they can't cope, we wouldn't need to sell memberships anymore. For some reason, there is this misconception that finding fault with something is almost as helpful as actually putting in the effort to fix it. <shrug> human nature, I guess.